Episode 45 of Hooked on Creek features my interview with Tom Flanagan. Tom is a professional writer, a music nerd and a huge fan of Max Creek.
Tom is also a published author who is currently writing a book about Max Creek. In this episode, Tom talks about his approach to writing the book, what to expect in it and his desire to preserve Max Creek’s legacy for future generations. Tom also talks about his love of Max Creek and his experiences seeing the band over the years.
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Transcript of episode 45
You’re listening to Hooked on Creek, a podcast celebrating the music, history and fans of the best band in the land — the legendary Max Creek. I am your host, Korre Johnson, and this is episode 45.
Hello and welcome back to Hooked on Creek! This is a very special episode because I have the pleasure of introducing you to Tom Flanagan. Tom is a writer, a storyteller, a music lover and a huge fan of Max Creek. Tom is also a published author. His books include Acapulco and The Potato Puff Surprise. And now, Tom is writing a new book and this one is entirely focused on Max Creek. In this episode, you are going to hear all about Tom’s new book, where he is at in the writing process and what inspired him to take on this project. I think all of us, as fans of Max Creek, want this band’s legacy to get the recognition and documentation it deserves. That’s why I am so grateful Tom is writing this book and why I am so excited to share our conversation with you.
As a reminder, if you have feedback about this episode or if you have ideas for future episodes, head over to hookedoncreek.com and click the contact link to send me a message. Alright, now let’s get started.
Korre: Tom Flanagan, welcome to Hooked on Creek.
Tom: Hey, thanks Korre. It’s good to be here.
Korre: Tom, I understand you were born and raised in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, but you currently live in Fort Collins, Colorado, and at some point in time during your youth, you became exposed to the music of Max Creek. And now as an adult you are writing a book about Max Creek. Tell me about that.
Tom: Yeah, I’m happy to. So I grew up in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, and born and raised in New England. And much to my parents chagrin, I saw Max Creek every single Wednesday night at The Living Room in Providence, Rhode Island, on Providence Street — the big bubble. It had this big bubble on the side of the building. And boy, what a time to be alive and what a time to see the band. Throughout high school, I would see Max Creek the minimum of once a week. I mean, I was probably seeing the band six to eight times a month and was really spoiled in the late 80s and early 90s.
Korre: Growing up and seeing Max Creek at The Living Room, tell me about that venue. What was it like to be in that space watching Max Creek?
Tom: Yeah. I like to call it an infamous venue. It was really fantastic. They had amazing bands play. There was actually three locations. The first one I was too young to go to. It was in downtown Providence. The second one was on Promenade Street. That was sort of when I discovered Max Creek and I was in high school and there were just so many incredible concerts. I saw Phish there for the first time — their first time playing Rhode Island. I saw the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I would see Room Full of Blues. There was just so much amazing music back in the late 80s and early 90s.
It was owned by a gentleman named Randy. It was interesting, I didn’t know this at the time and I’ve sort of discovered this writing the book, he was really sort of a community leader in Rhode Island. He lived in a town called Cumberland, Rhode Island, and coached the little league baseball. He actually took multiple teams to the Little League World Series, was on ESPN — just a really great community guy. Every band I speak to, musicians just loved him. He really bent over backwards to make sure the band was taken care of. At one point, I think his wife or family member was cooking bands dinner. Unfortunately he died prematurely. He was hit and struck by a vehicle. It was really unfortunate. There’s actually a baseball field named after him in Cumberland, Rhode Island. But anyways, he owned three versions of The Living Room. They pretty much closed down after he passed. The third Living Room, certainly not as nice as the previous one — but some just amazing shows. I mean, these were sold-out shows on a weekly basis and the band just performed so well back then.
Korre: Tom, I really want to learn about this book. What is this book about Max Creek? Tell me about it.
Tom: Sure. So not to be dramatic, but it’s very important for me that the band’s legacy is preserved for future generations. And that’s why I’m such a big fan of Hooked on Creek because it’s doing the same thing, right? I’m an avid reader and I’m always disappointed when I read books about the jam band scene, particularly in the late 80s or early 1990s, and there’s little to no mention of Max Creek. And so that always sort of disappoints me and I want to change that.
So I live in Fort Collins, as you mentioned, which is one hour north of Denver. A few years ago the band announced that they were playing two shows in Denver, which I was really excited about because I figured that would probably be my last chance to see the band. I mean, they’ve been playing for 50 years. I live in Colorado now and I don’t get to see the band. So, I was super excited for the announcement. I obviously purchased tickets as soon as they went on sale and then unfortunately the shows were canceled numerous times due to the pandemic. So, I was pretty bummed. I was like, man, if this was the last time I ever had a chance to see Creek and it was canceled due to the pandemic, I was just going to be totally bummed. But luckily the shows happened and they played two shows last May and they were fantastic.
I was so impressed with how tight the band was, how well they performed. It was just two amazing shows. So, I’m driving home after the show back to Fort Collins and I was like, I need to brush up on my Max Creek stuff. I went online and was saddened to see that there weren’t any books available or any books written about Max Creek. Myself being a professional writer and a lifelong fan, I said, “I’m going to change that.” So, I reached out to the band and luckily they were all for it.
Korre: What was their reaction? Do you remember when you first got in touch with them, were they, “Who are you and what do you want to do?”
Tom: That’s kind of an interesting story. I went to the shows with a friend of mine who lives in Boulder. Interestingly enough, when we went to the shows, his neighbor was there and his neighbor was the booking agent for Live Nation who had booked the shows. I was chatting with him and chatting about Max Creek and how I grew up seeing the band. He loved those stories. After that, I reached out to my friend and I was like, “This is kind of a crazy idea, but could you put me in touch with the band’s management? I want to pitch them the idea of the book.”
And I’m just paraphrasing now, but I think their manager got back to me and said something to the effect of, “Tom, it’s my job to put things and requests in front of the band, but this is probably not something they’re interested in. It’s not something they focus on. It’s not in their wheelhouse. But thank you for contacting me and thank you for your interest.” And I was like, “Well, at least I tried.” I had a good idea and I pitched it. So be it.
And then literally the next day, Mark Mercier emailed me back and he completely remembered me from back in the day, which was wonderful. He’s one of the nicest people I’ve ever met. He said, “Tom, let’s do it.” So like within a day, he’s like, “The band supports this. Let’s begin the process. Let’s set up some interviews.” So, I haven’t looked back since then. It was just an amazing sort of string of events that happened.
Korre: Where are you in the overall process of writing this book? Are you more towards the beginning, the middle, or the end?
Tom: From a writer’s standpoint, it’s an interesting sort of project. I am simultaneously writing the book and researching it. The research process has been a little intriguing. It’s sort of been fascinating. I’ve interviewed band members past and present. I’ve interviewed crew members and super fans, as well. It’s one of these projects where the more I learn, the more questions I have, which has been really fascinating. There’s been things I’ve uncovered that I was like, “Wow, that wasn’t in my initial draft of the book, but this is such a wonderful topic, I have to explore it more.”
Just to give you an example, I’ve had the opportunity to interview Linda [Cournoyer]. And Linda was sort of like the next member of the band. She was sort of the Chris Kuroda of Max Creek, if you will. She did lights for decades for the band. She did merchandise. She did most of the covers and the designs for Max Creek’s studio albums. So when you look at something like MCMXC or one of the great studio albums, Windows, whatever the case may be, Linda did those designs. She is really an engaging person to chat with. She’s been there behind the scenes for decades, since the beginning of Max Creek. One of the topics that came up with her that I thought was just fascinating was being a female in a rock and roll scene in the 70s and 80s. But I just thought that was such an engaging topic to explore.
I have a great draft of the book and there’s already a lot of work done on it, but as I navigate through this project, there are examples like I just mentioned with Linda that come up organically and I’m all for that. Just recently I was chatting with Greg DeGuglielmo, who I’m sure you know. I think he’s been a guest on Hooked on Creek. He’s just a wonderful storyteller. He’ll just come out of the blue and be like, “Tom, I forgot to tell you this one. Let’s jump on Zoom and chat about this.” He was recently telling me a story how the band did a gig in Connecticut back in the day and Robert Hunter was on the bill. He was backstage, sort of the back-backstage. There was like this kitchen area and he was just practicing his drums and stretching before the gig and Robert Hunter and his wife walked in and they just hit it off. When things like that come up, I’m like, boy, you have to include that in the book.
So, it’s sort of an interesting project. I think most writers probably conduct their research, finalize all their research and interviews and all of that sort of process and then begin to write. I’m sort of in this space where I’m doing both simultaneously — but it’s working, so that’s cool.
Korre: Will this book follow the band chronologically? Will it sort of start at the beginning and take you through the years or does it approach it from different perspectives? Or, maybe you’re not willing to share that yet?
Tom: No, I’m happy to share that. I think there’s going to be some great data that comes out of the research I’ve done, too, that I’d love to share with the band and the community. The book will certainly take a look at the 50+ years of the band’s history. It’ll take a look at Camp Creek. It’ll take a look at the studio albums as well. It’ll take a look at the live performances and of course the fans in the community will be in the book as well.
But every great story needs conflict, right? Some of the best stories ever written need conflict. If you don’t have conflict, it’s pretty much a boring book. It’s conflict that makes people turn the pages. And I think everybody knows writers that are really good at that, people like Dan Brown who wrote the Da Vinci Code. Those just page burners in J. K. Rowling, Stephen King — all of these famous writers, they do a really good job at exploring conflict.
One of the things, sort of the meat and potatoes of the book, that I am really interested in exploring is this sort of notion of the early 90s, there was an inflection point with the band. It was sort of interesting that in that early 90s scene right around the time when the first H.O.R.D.E. tour was sort of developing, you had these bands like Phish and Blues Traveler and Spin Doctors and others sort of propel themselves to the next level of their career and went on to have a lot of commercial success. And, that didn’t happen for Max Creek. As a writer and a fan of the band, I’m really interested in uncovering why that happened. And obviously, like many things in life, there are lots of reasons things happen. So, I think it’s going to be not only a great topic to explore for fans, but even for just music fans. Even if you’re not a Creek Freak or maybe you just know Max Creek in passing — you’re a fan of rock and roll, a fan of music or other genres — I think you’re going to really sort of appreciate that exploration. I think it’s going to be pretty fascinating.
It is interesting, some of the things I’ve sort of uncovered. I’m tackling the 50 years, the studio albums, the live recordings. One of the things, too, I want to cover in the band that I’ve been drafting is this notion that not all jam bands are created equal. I think writers have been lazy. I think it’s just an easy term to coin — jam bands. But if you think about it, I mean there are just so many genres of music and so many bands that get lumped into that genre or that label put on them, that is just not indicative of what they do.
For example, Bluesky Greengrass [Greensky Bluegrass] is not the same as Phish, and Phish is not the same as The National, and The National is not the same as Ween, and Ween is not the same as Primus, and the Grateful Dead is not the same as Jefferson Airplane. So, the list goes on and on, but I think you get the drift, right? I think writers who cover rock and roll and music in general have sort of been lazy and they haven’t taken the time to explore that. If you look at other genres, if you look at heavy metal, not all heavy metal bands are created. So I think it’s going to be fun to sort of break that down and explore some of those bands.
Korre: I’m reminded of what Eamon Cronin told me in my interview with him. He made a point to have me note that Max Creek is not a jam band. They are a band that jams. So, I think you’re right. If you get lumped into this jam band, then it comes with a lot of baggage and maybe that doesn’t fit you very well. I’d like to think that Max Creek has carved out sort of a place for themselves in this scene that very much distinguishes themselves from other bands, not only in the style of music they play, but in just how they approach the music. Having multiple people sing, multiple people write the songs and just how they interact with the crowd and the scene, to me it makes them distinct. But that’s my perspective, I guess.
Tom: That’s great insight. And it’s true, right? I’ve seen so many labels applied to Max Creek, whether it be country rock, psychedelic country rock, new bluegrass, newgrass, Dead tribute band, jam band, all of these different labels — some with a positive connotation, others not so much. But this is a wonderful opportunity to sort of set that record straight and explore their music, right? I also think the Grateful Dead’s legacy is just so significant and so impactful. I remember a time where people would think Max Creek was a Grateful Dead tribute band. It’s certainly not the case. I’m just so excited actually to finally be able to sort of explore these topics and communicate my thoughts and love for the band. Yeah, I’m pretty excited about it.
Korre: Well, how long is it going to take for you to finish up this book? I’m kind of excited. I want to read it.
Tom: Yeah, so do I. I’ll keep you posted. You know, my initial plan for the project plan was six months of research and one year of writing. And so, I could wrap the entire project up in about a year and a half. But interestingly enough, the interview process is really taking off. When something like that happens, I just can’t not let it happen. And so it may take a little longer. I will certainly keep you posted, Korre. I’ll certainly keep the Hooked on Creek audience posted. But I don’t have a definitive date yet.
Korre: What is the name of this book going to be? Do you know yet?
Tom: I do have a working title and the working title is Max Creek: Thanks for Being Here.
Korre: I love it. I absolutely love it. Well, I wonder in all the research you’re doing, are there any areas of the Max Creek community or history that you need help with? I mean, I don’t know how many fans of Max Creek listen to the podcast. Some do. Is there anything we can do to help you?
Tom: Yes, absolutely. I’m so glad you asked. It’s been interesting. Max Creek isn’t documented like other bands and there’s certainly bands that sort of grew up online and on the internet that are well documented. Like Phish is a perfect example, right? Like phish.net and other platforms — that’s a band that’s incredibly well documented. Creek was before that era. And so they’re not as well documented as other bands. And so I’ve actually been working on a 50-year timeline that has milestones of each year that includes Camp Creek. I actually had to sort of uncover and build out a timeline of the 30 Camp Creeks that have happened. Even some of the band was like, “Oh gosh, Tom, you’re asking me to remember things from the 70s and 80s.” If you remember the 70s and 80s were you really there, type of thing. Building out timelines and building out Camp Creek timelines.
Also, there are some gaps that I’m still looking to fill in. There have been fans that have reached out to me and that have been really helpful. Just this Saturday, I was interviewing Mark Costa, who by the way has been a good friend of mine for decades. He was with the band for 20 years and just a great guy. He started doing monitors, doing sound and was with the band for 20 years before moving on. I had a great interview with him and he was a good friend of mine even before he joined the Max Creek organization. So it’s great to have somebody like that. I’ve also had the opportunity to chat with Annie Stackhouse. Annie’s a longtime fan close to the band, who’s been instrumental in sort of arranging interviews with me. But I’d love to include some photographs, some memories, some sort of first-person point of view information about some of the festivals in the past.
I guess a good call to action would be if anybody’s listening to this podcast, feel free to reach out to me. Maybe the best avenue for that is on the Hooked on Creek Facebook page. I mean, that’s super simple. Everybody’s on Facebook. I had asked some questions on that, gotten great responses. So if you’re cool with that, Korre, that works for me.
Korre: Yeah.
Tom: I’d love if somebody has some information to share, some tidbit that has to be in the Max Creek book, most definitely reach out to me. I’m still sort of missing set lists from the early 80s. I’m missing some milestones here and there. I always have questions about some studio albums. So, more information the better.
Korre: Well, this is not the only book that you’ve ever written. I’m curious, what are some of the other books that you’ve written and how does this book or this project compared to some of the other things you’ve done?
Tom: So, my first book that I published is called The Potato Puff Surprise. It is a memoir about growing up in Rhode Island, particularly sort of during the junior high days. So I like to think of the book as sort of a cross between that old TV show The Wonder Years meets the movie Stand By Me. There’s a lot of like junior-high high jinx and shenanigans that happen. The catalyst for the book was my friend’s dad who actually gave me my first Grateful Dead album. He passed of cancer a few years back. Literally his dying wish was to have me write his eulogy. So, I did that. It was an honor to write his eulogy. And when I did, so many people after the services came up to me and said, “Tom, that would be a wonderful idea for a story.” And so that’s how The Potato Puff Surprise came to be. There’s actually an audio book for The Potato Puff Surprise as well.
My last novel is called Acapulco. If you’re a fan of Stranger Things this is the book for you. It’s about a haunted lake in New England in the 1980s. I actually had an opportunity to turn that into a Netflix series. It didn’t ultimately work out, but wow, that was a wonderful learning experience.
I’m also putting the finishing touches on a second novel. It’s called Lav Rats. It’s about a garage rock band in the 90s, sort of a ghost story. So that’s been great. And so yeah, it’s just something I love to do.
Korre: I read The Potato Puff Surprise shortly after I met you at Camp Creek. I loved it. I would recommend it to anybody who’s listening right now if they want to get to know you. That might be a good way to start, right?
Tom: Yeah. Thank you. I’m so glad you enjoyed the book. I love hearing feedback like that. And the audio book, of course, I had to record it. That had to have a Rhode Island accent. It had to have the Pawtucket accent. I would not have recorded Acapulco, but I certainly did The Potato Puff surprise and I will never listen to it again.
Korre: Well, let’s take it back to Max Creek for a second. I’m curious, what are some of your favorite Max Creek songs?
Tom: Oh, I love this question. For me, by far — and this is an easy question for me — by far my most favorite Max Creek song is Emerald Eyes. In my humble opinion, it is just a musical masterpiece. I really think that it showcases the entire band. Each musician gets an opportunity to shine on the song. I think it’s the quintessential Max Creek song. It’s got great verses. It has a great chorus. It has a great bridge. The hook is just incredible. I think it’s one of Scott’s finest musical pieces.
There’s a scene in a Long Strange Trip, the Grateful Dead documentary, where the former Senator Al Franken, who’s a huge deadhead, talks about his love for Althea. He has all these different versions of Althea. And I’m sort of the same way with Emerald Eyes. I love the late 80s, early 90s Emerald Eyes. I love the versions before they incorporated the Peanuts theme into it. I have playlists of just Emerald Eyes.
Korre: Also wondering, is there a specific Max Creek memory that stands out to you? Maybe it’s from writing the book or maybe it’s from your experiences seeing the band over the years.
Tom: I think one of my favorite Max Creek concerts, I was a big fan of Bucksteep Manor. They used to play in western Massachusetts every Labor Day weekend up at this place called Bucksteep. It was my favorite. I actually preferred it to Camp Creek. I just loved the camping. I loved the setting. The band was just so loose and just amazing shows. That 1991 Bucksteep Manor show, that set list is just fantastic. I feel like the band was in peak form back then. They would always have great opening acts play. I remember The Machine, who was a popular Pink Floyd tribute band, would play, and other bands as well. It was just a beautiful weekend, beautiful quintessential New England concert weekend. So that was a great memory.
Also, one of the things that I loved, too, was Camp Creek last year when you and I met each other in person. That was just a wonderful experience. I hadn’t been to a Camp Creek in decades, never thought I’d get to go again. Not only did I get to go, but I went with friends that I used to go with back in the day. It’s so cool that my Rhode Island friends still see Max Creek on a regular basis. And what I loved about it so much — it was such a special moment for me because I hadn’t spoken to these friends in some time, years in some cases. And like there was nothing awkward. We literally picked up where we left off. We literally drove to Connecticut from Rhode Island together. We set up the campsite and it was just so great to spend the weekend with them. And it reminded me of just how friendly and how cool the Creek community is. Gosh, I think we forgot condiments and within seconds people were running over with ketchup and mustard and things and just sharing everything. It was just an amazing scene.
I used to love Bucksteep Manor. Last year’s Camp Creek was awesome. Back then when I was in high school, it was such a life-changing scene, something I had never sort of seen before, something I had never participated in before. And then just as life happens, going every single Wednesday, eight times a month or so, you just get to see the same people every show. And then you make friends. And then you make lifelong friends. So, those are the moments I think about. Just all the close friends that I met and what a just an amazing time to be alive back then. Those are some of the things I reflect on when I think of my favorite moments with Max Creek.
Korre: Music is such a powerful thing and you’re a writer, so I’m wondering your perspective on the role of music in popular culture or the role in music as a place you could take yourself, your own mind or your own emotions, and how it connects people together? It seems to have such a heavy influence, or could have a heavy influence, in so many people’s lives. And I’m wondering how do you perceive music as far as influencing you or popular culture?
Tom: Yeah. That’s a great question. It’s magical, right? It really does have magic in it. And for most people, the soundtrack of their lives is music, right? You’re driving down the road and a song comes on, whether it’s on Spotify, Apple Music, maybe you’re listening to the radio and it’s a song from 20 years ago, and you’re instantly transported back in that moment of time when that song resonated with you, which is fascinating. I can’t think of lots of things in life that do that. I mean, it’s just so experiential, right? And it doesn’t matter what genre of music you are. It’s tribal.
For Max Creek, not to be stereotypical, but you may have people who love improvisational music, they love the culture from the 60s, that Woodstock culture, they love that hippie lifestyle, that creative outlet. And once you’re in that tribe, it’s like wearing a uniform or a badge. And that’s applicable whether you’re into bluegrass, whether you’re into noise rock, whether you’re into heavy metal, shoegaze — like whatever that is — you find your tribe. That music is magical. And, now you’ve actually given me something I want to explore in the book. That’s a great question.
Korre: Well, Tom, if anybody wants to learn more about you, where can they find you or how can they get connected with you?
Tom: Yeah, they can visit my website. It is tflan.com. Super easy. And I encourage everybody to sign up for my newsletter. I send a weekly newsletter. It typically focuses on topics like my writing and very nerdy music. I’m a music nerd, so I cover a lot of that stuff. That’s where I’ll be providing updates for the Max Creek book. So just visit tflan.com, hit that subscribe button right on the homepage and that would be cool.
Korre: Tom Flanagan, thank you so much for joining me on Hooked on Creek. I had so much fun talking with you.
Tom: Yeah, likewise. Thanks Korre.
All right, that concludes my conversation with Tom Flanagan. Huge thanks again to Tom for joining me on the podcast. It was a lot of fun talking with him and now I am really looking forward to his new book. Tom is a beautiful writer. I’ve read his book Acapulco and his book The Potato Puff Surprise. Both are excellent, so I encourage you to check them out. In the episode show notes, you can find a link to Tom’s website tflan.com to learn more about Tom and his books. If you are curious, during the introduction to this episode I played a portion of Emerald Eyes, Tom’s favorite Max Creek song. That version of Emerald Eyes was recorded live December 23, 1989, at The Living Room in Providence, Rhode Island.
If you have feedback about this episode, please head over to the Hooked on Creek website at hookedoncreek.com and click to the contact link to send me a message. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for tuning in!