In episode 5 of Hooked on Creek, I interviewed Dave Burland and discussed Max Creek’s performance on June 15, 2019, at Lincoln Hill Farms in Canandaigua, New York.
Dave is a huge fan of Max Creek and a talented singer/songwriter, publishing music under the name Cactus Area.
My interview with Dave includes conversations about his love of music, including Max Creek, Phish, Mike Gordon and Trey Anastasio. We talk about how he was first exposed to Max Creek through seeing Scott Murawski play with Mike Gordon. Dave shares memories and highlights from his recent experience seeing Max Creek perform, and we dig deep into Dave’s passion for playing guitar, singing and writing music as Cactus Area.
Included in this episode are two Cactus Area songs, After Everything and This Is Where the Suffering Ends.
I encourage you to listen to Cactus Area on Bandcamp.
The Max Creek song She’s Here featured in the introduction of this episode was recorded at Max Creek’s performance at the Big Apple BBQ in Madison Square Park in New York, New York, on June 10, 2018 and is available to stream or download on archive.org.
Episode 5 transcription
You’re listening to Hooked on Creek, a podcast celebrating the music of Max Creek. I am your host, Korre Johnson, and you are listening to episode 5.
Hey everyone thanks so much for joining me on episode 5 of Hooked on Creek. I really think you are going to enjoy this episode because it features an interview I recently had with David Burland. David is a huge fan of Max Creek and during my interview we talk about his love for the band and his recent experience seeing Max Creek perform on June 15 at Lincoln Hill Farms in Canandaigua, New York. In addition to being a fan of jam bands like Max Creek and Phish, David is also a talented singer/songwriter, publishing music under the name Cactus Area.
Before we jump into the interview, I have a couple things I want to ask you. First, please subscribe to this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or whatever app you use to listen podcasts. And if you enjoy listening to Hooked on Creek, help me reach more Max Creek fans by telling your friends about this podcast. You can also join discussions about the podcast and get a behind-the-scenes view of this podcast by joining the Hooked on Creek Facebook group, or following the podcast on Twitter or Instagram. Just search for Hooked on Creek on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram to get connected.
And as always, if you have feedback about this episode or suggestions for future episodes, head over to hookedoncreek.com, click the contact link and let me know what you think. Alright, now let’s get started.
Korre: Dave, thanks for joining me on this episode of Hooked on Creek.
David: Yeah, it’s great to be here, Korre.
Korre: To begin with, maybe you can tell me a little bit about yourself, where you’re from and what you do when you’re not listening to Max Creek?
David: Sure, which I do a lot of lately. My name is Dave Burland and I live in the Finger Lakes area of western New York. I actually grew up in Massachusetts, but I spent quite a few years in Los Angeles, but recently in 2015 moved back to this area because my wife and I really love the seasons. So when I’m not listening to music, which is a lot of the time — wish I had more time to listen to music — I work in IT, so I’m a project manager. But I do spend most of my downtime listening to music, watching movies, things like that.
Korre: How did you first become exposed to Max Creek?
David: It was really through the Mike Gordon Band. I listen to a lot of Phish. I’m a big Phish fan. So, I think through that I got introduced to Scott Murawski. So probably a couple of years ago I started listening to them a little bit more regularly and I was watching them a lot on YouTube, so I’ve seen them in quite a few performances on there. But it’s the Gathering of the Vibes videos — have you ever seen those? So I started watching quite a few of those and then from there it just kind of exploded. I listen on Spotify and as you can see from my Twitter, I’m listening on a daily basis to Max Creek. But it is primarily on YouTube. So that’s how I really got exposed to them. And I follow Scott through Mike Gordon Band, and then just listening online.
Korre: So that’s something we have in common. I live in Milwaukee and I had never heard of Max Creek until I went and saw Mike Gordon here in Milwaukee a couple of years ago. And I left that show wondering who is that guitar player? He was so amazing. So I immediately went home that night, did a Google search, started watching YouTube videos, and I was immediately just hooked on this guitar player, first of all. And then the band Max Creek was exposed to me over just countless hours of just watching YouTube videos and then going on archive.org. So that’s a somewhat similar introduction to Max Creek.
David: Yeah. I forgot to mention archive.org. I mean, isn’t that a great site to just be able to go back and listen to? I’ve been on that site quite a bit lately too, just listening to shows from the 70s. I mean, you can go all the way back to listen to some of the first shows they did. Yeah. So that’s great.
Korre: When did you first become exposed to the jam-band scene? You know, whether that’s Phish or Grateful Dead. Where in your life was that first introduced to you? When you were younger or older?
David: I have to say probably more intensively, maybe about 10 years ago. And it was through my exposure to Phish. With Phish, I mostly couch tour, but I did have a chance to go to the Baker’s Dozen shows. Have you seen Phish live also or no?
Korre: Yeah, I’ve seen Phish live probably seven or eight times, since beginning in college in the late 90s.
David: So for me it was kind of later because I was into kind of different kinds of music in high school. And then about 10 years ago I really got into Phish quite a bit. So I’ve done probably 50 shows couch tour, and then I was at two of the Baker’s Dozen shows — really, really amazing. I mean, I was just blown away by their shows. So, that’s kind of how I got exposed. I listen to lately, like I said within the last 10 years, just a lot of Grateful Dead, obviously Max Creek, Phish, but those are the primary ones I spent a lot of time listening to.
Korre: A couple of weeks ago you had reached out on Twitter with a message that said, and I want to quote, “Went to my first Max Creek show last night. I danced for three hours in the rain. Guess I’m a Creek Freak now.” Tell me about that tweet and the show you went to and everything related to it.
David: Absolutely. There’s a big smile on my face because I had such a great time. It was probably one of the best shows I’ve ever been to. I went to a place called Lincoln Hill Farms, which is pretty close to one of the Finger Lakes here. So it’s very close to where I live, maybe 10 minutes down the road. So I was really excited to see that because they perform in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and as you know, they don’t really do the Midwest or the West. So I was really excited that they were going to be playing up here. Lincoln Hill Farms is a new venue in this area and it was a really, really beautiful place. I mean they have a food truck there, there’s a huge pond there. The stage is all outdoors. There weren’t a tremendous amount of people there, which is one of the concert experiences I like, too. Like I said, when I went to see Phish in Madison Square Garden, there’s thousands of people there. This was very, very small.
And if you’ve seen my Facebook page, I think I posted one picture of me very close to the stage. I’m an older guy, so I’m not what you would consider to be a rail rider, if you will. But I was really excited to be there. I’ll just give you some more details. I got there a little bit early, so I saw Mark, the keyboard player, drive in, in his own car. There was a little house behind the stage where all the band members were kind of congregating beforehand. So I got to see Scott do the sound check. I got to see Mark come out and test the keyboard out. I was right up close to the stage. So I’d say for most of the show I was right in front of Scott.
Korre: Just to clarify, this was on June 15th? Is that right?
David: June 15th. Yeah. June 15th. My wife came with me and we had a couple of friends come with, too. And ordinarily in concert experiences, I wouldn’t classify myself as a dancer so much, but I was having such a good time once the music started going — the way the crowd was and just the spirit of the whole thing. It started to rain and I have to say, ordinarily for maybe another show, there’s a little bit of a shelter area there, so I probably would have gone there. But I didn’t, I didn’t do that. I didn’t want to miss any of the music. We danced. We danced in the rain basically for three hours, four hours. They had a set break. So they do set one and take a little bit of a break and then set two. They came back I think a little bit early because of the rain, but it was an amazing show. I sent you the set list, right? So you’ve seen that.
Korre: So you’ve been listening to at this point in time to Max Creek for years. Is that correct? Or for a while? And getting a chance to see them live for the first time must’ve been exciting.
David: I was super excited. Yeah. And just to see some of the behind the scenes type of things, to see Scott come out. Again, these guys have been playing so long together. It was great to be that close to such a band that was so tight and so familiar with the way they perform. To me it was an amazing experience. I think I mentioned to you earlier too, I’m probably gonna see them again this year. They’re playing at the Sterling Stage in Sterling, New York. It’s about an hour and a half from here. So I’m trying to convince my wife to go there with me, probably the end of the summer. And they always play up there, usually around the end of the summer, too,
Korre: You had sent over the set list and at least as of this recording today, that show is not yet posted to archive.org so we don’t have a recording of it. Although Bill, the drummer, did post a video from behind his drum set when he was doing a Facebook Live and I’ve watched parts of that, which was nice. So hopefully that gets posted soon and we can, we can share that.
David: I think he does that a lot, too. I saw him tape his phone to one of the speakers in the back there, too. So I think he does that at a lot of shows, which is great to see. Especially if you’re not able to go to the show, you can at least hear a couple of the tunes and you can see how he interacts with Scott and Mark and John.
Korre: Let me just run through the songs from the first set and I just want to see if you have any memories or highlights that you want to talk about here. So it looks like they started out with She’s Here, followed that up with Up On Cripple Creek, then I Want You to Know. That was followed up by Sweet Wanomi, then it went into The Field and then See It My Way. And they closed the first set with Slow Down. What were some of the highlights from the first set for you?
David: So I was happy to catch a She’s Here. As my wife and I been listening to a lot of things, that’s one of her favorite songs and so she was happy to hear that one in the beginning. So She’s Here is a great song. That’s one of my favorites. And then the song I’ve been listening to over and over again with as many recordings as I can is Sweet Wanomi. Have you listened to versions of that before? It’s a great song. It’s a Bill Withers tune. I think there’s one YouTube video where they’re dressed up in sort of King Arthur kind of costumes and things like that. I don’t know if you’ve seen that one, but that’s what I’ve been watching over and over again for quite some time. And I danced a lot during that one. They do a great version of that song.
Korre: Set two comes back with Jones. That’s followed up by I Can’t Stand the Rain. Then we have Blood Red Roses and that’s followed up by Television.
David: I think The Bees was after that and then Emerald Eyes, You’re the Only One. For set two, Jones — again one of my favorite songs. I just love how they jam that, and there’s so many different versions of that one out there. That’s one also that gets played with Mike Gordon Band, too.
Korre: Yeah. So that was the only Max Creek song I’ve seen perform live — when Mike Gordon played it when he came to Milwaukee with Scott. So when I saw that song, I just assumed it was one of Mike’s songs. And then come to find out, it’s really one of Max Creek’s older songs. It’s really goes way deep in their library.
David: Yeah, and the jam on that one was great. I was so happy to get a She’s Here and Jones — the ones I was really happy to hear. And then of course I Can’t Stand the Rain. So they’re gonna tailor their set based on what’s happening. So I really liked that. And then one of my favorites from set two is Emerald Eyes. That’s one of my favorite songs. And Scott spent some time during the opening of Emerald Eyes asking the crowd how many times they’ve seen Max Creek and the various venues around Rochester. I’m close to the Rochester, New York, area, so it was very cool to hear him play that riff over and over again while he was kinda talking to the crowd. He mentioned that Rochester,New York, was the farthest west he wanted to go. Since they play New Haven and Massachusetts and the upper parts of New York, he said that he always felt at home in this area, which I thought was really great, which to me meant that hopefully he’s going to come back here more — especially with Lincoln Hill Farms being new and stuff like that. I think they really enjoyed the show here.
Korre: What was the crowd like? Were they younger, older?
David: It was really a mixed crowd. Lincoln Hill Farms has kind of a family environment, so there’s places for kids to play. But I would say primarily maybe an older crowd? But everybody was really super happy, even with the rain and everything. People were dancing. One of the things I like about the jam-band crowd is that everybody seems very friendly. I don’t know if you’ve experienced that with Mike Gordon Band or Phish shows, but everybody’s really friendly. Everybody is there really to have a good time for the most part. And that’s what I really enjoyed about it. And I really haven’t been to a tremendous amount of concerts that weren’t like “sit down” concerts. So like I said, it was kind of unlike me to dance like that.
Korre: I’m wondering, do you have friends that you’ve tried to introduce Max Creek and their music to? And if so, how do you describe their music to them? I mean, do you end up comparing them to other bands? How do you describe Max Creek?
David: Yeah, I definitely compare them to Phish. There’s an interview on YouTube also with Scott Murawski, which I’ve watched a couple of times, where he talks about how Mike came to him in the beginning. They were playing one song and I guess Mike came up to Scott and gave him a tape. Have you seen that one?
Korre: Yeah, I’ve read that story, too.
David: Yeah. When I’m talking about Phish, I definitely mentioned Max Creek. So I would say it’s mostly my friends on Twitter, and maybe I can mention my Twitter handle, too. My Twitter handle is @cactusarea so that’s where I interact with a lot more of jam-band folks. But as far as in person, it’s just my wife and myself. And then any Facebook friends, where I’m sharing things like that.
Korre: Tell me about Cactus Area. What does that mean?
David: Cactus Area. It’s funny, I don’t think I’ve ever told this story. When I was younger my grandfather — my last name is Burland so I always remember having a conversation with my grandfather where he said, “You should call yourself Cactus Area because it’s kind of like bur land.” So I always remembered that and I thought, I should just use that cause it makes me think of him. It’s kind of a musical project. I’m also a musician, so I write music. I have a Bandcamp under that name as well, where I have music that I’ve written for many, many years.
And I think just my love of music in general has inspired me to write songs and to continue to work on playing the guitar. I learned to play the piano when I was younger, so I would play classical tunes on the piano and then gradually taught myself how to play guitar, which I’ve been playing for 25 or 30 years. So I consider myself a pretty decent rhythm guitarist, not so much on lead. It’s something that I enjoy doing. It’s a great hobby. So that’s where that comes from. Like I said, you’ve got probably the exclusive on that cause I don’t think I’ve ever told anybody that story.
Korre: I took some time over the last few days to listen to some of your songs and I’ll tell you, I really like them. I think you’re very talented. How would you describe your music?
David: I’m more of a singer/songwriter type. So, most of the songs I write have that flavor to them. Like I mentioned, I’m a lot more interested in ideas. I’m not that good of a lead player. I can do little things that you probably heard on the recording or maybe I’ll have a friend come over and do some lead for me. But I’m more interested in kind of the creation process of writing a song and recording it. Even though I have quite a lot of material on Bandcamp, I’m always writing new things or developing new riffs and things like that. So, it’s been a great hobby. And so that’s kinda how I would describe the style.
Korre: Now, we’re going to take a short break from my interview with Dave Burland so we can listen to some of his music. This song is called After Everything.
Korre: Wondering, do you think that listening to Phish or Max Creek has inspired your own music that you create?
David: Absolutely. I think my tendency lately is to try to write more happy songs. I feel like Max Creek and Phish songs are very happy. That’s why I liked the show. That’s why I like listening to things. It makes me feel good. Some of the earlier stuff that I’ve written is maybe a little bit more serious material. But Phish, for the most part, is pretty light. It’s pretty fun music, and I feel the same about Max Creek, too. I mean, they have some songs that are more serious, but for the most part, at least in the show I went to see, everybody was super happy.
Korre: We’re getting towards the end of our interview here, but I have a couple more questions and I’m wondering, do you have a favorite show — a favorite Max Creek show?
David: I think it’s gotta be the one I’ve seen live, right? You know what I mean? Because I have so many great memories there, too. I don’t know if you touched on the encore, but one of the songs from the encore, Shakey Ground, also was a great one to see live. I really enjoyed that one as well. So that’d be my favorite, I want to say
Korre: What about looking over all the decades of their music. Do you find yourself playing more 80s, 90s or 2000s or recent stuff?
David: I’ve been going back and you’ve probably seen some of my tweets, but lately my favorite songs have been In Harmony, ICU and Sweet Wanomi, of course, so those are probably older songs. I would say I go back to probably 80s, 90s era. I feel like your podcast is really good timing because I feel like Scott Murawski, Bill Carbone — everybody seems to be, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but on Instagram lately, Scott Murawski has a new account. I think he’s being encouraged by Mike Gordon to maybe post more things.
I think what I’d love to see with Max Creek is — I don’t think they’ve ever really worked that hard to promote themselves. So it’s great to see their Live at 45 record on Spotify. There weren’t that many people selling t-shirts at the show. But I feel like things are moving a little bit after all these years. I mean, they’re coming up on their 50th anniversary. So I feel like there’s a little bit more merch out there and there’s a little bit more promotion, if you will. I don’t I know how you feel about that part of it, but that’s the thing. I feel like the band itself is so good, they just haven’t got that level of promotion that would take them to the next level. I mean, do you feel that way, too? Just listening to shows?
Korre: Yeah, I do. And I’ll say, I wonder if Bill’s introduction to the band has helped them because I know he, at least what I’ve read anyway, was a pretty strong influence in getting the Live at 45 album out this year. And when I started this podcast, I reached out to the band. I sent an email to the website not knowing if I’d get a response or who would respond to me, and it was Bill who replied back. And he was so nice and so encouraging of me taking on this project. I exchanged a few emails with him since. He’s obviously very active in social media and everything. So I know he’s been pretty active in helping the band sorta take it to the next level with his involvement, which has been great.
David: Which is great. And, I wanted to give you a compliment here, too. I think it’s great that you’ve started this podcast. As I said before, I think it’s very timely. I think your approach and the way that you’re crafting the shows is great — just to feature a show, to talk about it, and again, just to get the word out. I feel like after 50 years, these guys should be well known and they should be playing larger venues. I know Scott’s played Red Rocks recently I think with Mike Gordon Band, they played Brooklyn Bowl and things like that. But man, it’d be great to see them in larger venues and really appreciated for the great band they are.
Korre: That’s exactly right. I mean, of all my friends who listen to Phish, listen to Grateful Dead and listen to jam bands, and they don’t know who Max Creek is — I just get almost frustrated. Some of those feelings are what led me to create this podcast. I thought maybe I can do something, right? I’m already listening to all this music anyway, like every single day. Maybe if I started documenting what I’m listening to and providing some comments on it and using something like a podcast — which I listen to everyday anyway — as a way to help spread the music, maybe in some small way I can help. I don’t know if Max Creek is looking for help, but I’m here to help, I guess.
David: Which is great. I think we all need to do that, too. That’s why I’ve been tweeting a little bit more about them and I’ll continue to do that.
Korre: Well, Dave, I really appreciate your time, during this podcast interview. Do you have any final thoughts?
David: The one thing I was going to say that we maybe touched on a little bit — one of the things I really enjoyed about the show is just watching the way Scott and the band work through a song. I think it’s very different, if you know through some of the videos the way Phish works and some of their exercises and things like that. Max Creek, the way they jam is they’re very organic and methodical about the way they jam. Phish I think works on more active composition and I think Max Creek does a little bit more noodling and kind of gets there in maybe a slower way. But man, that’s great to see. It’s really fun to see a band sort of working through songs they’ve played for so many years and playing them so well and just working together as a band. It’s just amazing to watch live. So the thing I would say is, go see Max Creek. See them live wherever they are and support the band. I think they’re an amazing band and I think they deserve a lot more credit than they’re getting.
Korre: And I think for those of us who don’t live on the East Coast, that means watch them on YouTube as much as you can, buy their albums — do whatever you can to support them.
David: Yeah. And we’d like to see more records, right? That’s the other thing, too. I was looking for t-shirts and there’s like maybe one or two t-shirts that I’ve seen. So I ‘d love to get t-shirts, more records — that kind of thing. So maybe with Bill leading the way, they’ll have more records on Spotify soon.
Korre: Yeah, that’d be great. Dave, if somebody wants to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?
David: Probably on Twitter. So again, it’s @cactusarea on Twitter and I’m on Twitter every day, so it would be great to hear from anyone.
Korre: All right, Dave. Well thank you so much for joining me on Hooked on Creek.
David: Thank you so much, Korre. I really appreciate it.
And that concludes my interview with Dave Burland. But, I want to play one more Cactus Area song before we wrap up this episode. This next song is called This Is Where the Suffering Ends.
That concludes episode 5 of Hooked on Creek. If you would like to learn more about Dave Burland, check him out on Twitter @cactusarea or on Bandcamp. If you are curious, the Max Creek song She’s Here that was featured in the introduction of this episode was recorded at Max Creek’s performance at the Big Apple BBQ in Madison Square Park in New York, New York back on June 10, 2018. And if you have feedback about this episode or suggestions for future episodes, please visit hookedoncreek.com, click the contact link and let me know what you think. Thanks for tuning it.